adminbus

src/en/admin-meetings/admin-meeting-14-09-2024.md

@@ -4,67 +4,195 @@
 ## Attendees
 
 <!-- List of meeting attendees -->
-- FartGuy420 - Head Admin
-- FartStinky314 - Trial Admin
+- Kira - Owner
+- Gtheglorious - Head Admin
+- Piras314 - Head Maintainer
+
+- CBozo - Game Admin
+- Icepick - Game Admin
+- CodyPencil - Game Admin
+- Greymaria - Game Admin
+
+- ChainXyle - Trial Admin
+- Tikibomb - Trial Admin
+- Bloomyex - Trial Admin
 ```
 
 ## Agenda
 
 <!-- List of the titles of every topic -->
-- Brief updates from last meeting
-- bad things are bad
-- more bad things are more bad also
+agenda was written by Gtheglorious on a different document for this meeting
 
 ## Topics
 
 <!-- Details about every topic -->
 
-### Brief updates from last meeting
+### Lack of Discord Permissions for Admins <!-- Replace with topic title -->
 
 #### Summary
 
-> that one bad thing was solved by [pr 58293489023](https://examplelink.spaaaaaaaaaacestation/129308190472893578927592.html).
-> other bad thing still hasn't been resolved
-> -FartMaster9999
+<!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
+> Kira fixed it mostly in the moment.
+> - Piras314
+
+#### Goals
+<!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
+Bully kira into giving Game Admins more permissions on Discord.
+
+### Automod Sucks <!-- Replace with topic title -->
+
+#### Summary
+
+<!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
+> I'll fix it
+> - Piras314
+
+#### Goals
+<!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
+Bully me into fixing Automod.
+
+## Actually serious topics now
+
+### Broad Antag Rules Discussion <!-- Replace with topic title -->
+
+#### Summary
+
+<!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
+> Kira's definition is just killing too many people outside objectives, even if it's technically self-defence. "Is it murderboning to get yourself into a situation where the entire station is against you as a syndie?" - Gtheglorious "3 people maximum to kill outside of objectives as a general rule, outside of self-defence" - Tikibomb "If you're at the point where the entire station is violently against you you've gone too far, even if it was only barely outside of your objectives" - Piras314
+
+> "You should have a plan to do your objectives- if people get in your way, you're allowed to do whatever you need to a reasonable extent. It's also simply good strategy for getting your objectives- if nukies focus on mindless killing, they won't get the disk as reliably" - CBozo "If you go out of your way to kill people outside of your objective, that's murderboning. Some killing outside of objectives can be okay, but if you just go release the tesla for no reason just 'cause, that's murderboning" - ChainXyle
+
+> "Going just straight to your objective with no mercy was a big problem on Leviathan in my day because there were players who just armed up with bloodreds and guns and would kill anyone slightly in their way. Let's say someone needs to steal something in the bridge- they arm up with extremely valid gear and go through the station to go there, anyone in the way is going to go attack them, and they kill them technically in self-defence, but all behind them is just a line of bodies." - Gtheglorious
+
+> "If you make yourself literally look like a nukie and people attack you, that's a completely normal response" - Piras314 "If you're a syndie, regardless of objectives other than die, if you can kill anyone and justify it as self-defence, if you're at the point where you're a walking killsign, that's murderboning" - Icepick "Syndies should at least attempt some level of secrecy" (summary).
+
+> "We all sort of agree on the general feeling of what murderboning is, should syndies be allowed to go loud is I guess the real question." - Gtheglorious. CBozo supports self-defence all the time and says players just shouldn't attack syndicates. Some other admins think that "loud syndies" that are essentially acting like nukies being treated like nukies makes sense. "Blood red in evac" most people assume that means nukies Gtheglorious says. We need to discuss more later.
+> - Piras314
+
+Emagging disposals discussion
+
+> "More of a mechanical issue than a rules issue" - Piras314 Jamming disposals idea from Tikibomb, it should damage instead of instantly gibbing you idea from Gtheglorious is mostly agreed upon, it should gib you if you're dead but otherwise just deal damage. We all essentially agreed that it's more of a mechanical issue in the end.
+
+Emagging medibot discussion
+
+> Sleeping bug makes it insane. At least temporarily remove emagging medibot because of it. Note to head maintainer / self: Look into if wizden fixed the sleeping bug.
+> - Piras314
+
+Should mass sabotage be allowed to make evac be called?
+
+> Don't do it if it's just not important for you to evac soon - CBozo. "Mass sabo time should be 50m-60m instead"?" - Piras314 and Tikibomb. "All your other objectives should be finished first." - Gtheglorious
+> - Piras314
+
+> In conclusion, antags should be able to mass sabo to cause evac given at least 45m and all other objectives are complete.
+> - Piras314
+
+#### Goals
+<!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
+Compile admin team opinions on the following questions:
+1. At what point are antags murderboning, define the term!!
+
+### Should Antags be Tied to their Objectives? <!-- Replace with topic title -->
+
+#### Summary
+
+<!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
+> Unfortunately going outside objectives a lot doesn't work out well in practice, it just turns into murderboning too often, unfortunately it's the kind of thing that should just be asked for in ahelps is what we're all agreeing on.
+> - Piras314
 
 #### Goals
-- Communicate updates on bad thing solving pr
-- Communicate that bad thing #2 is being worked on but isn't resolved yet
+<!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
+Compile admin team opinions on the following questions:
+1. Should antags be tied to their objectives?
 
-### Bad Thing #1 <!-- Replace with topic title -->
+### Antag Teaming <!-- Replace with topic title -->
 
 #### Summary
 
 <!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
-> so there's this bad thing right
-> it's bad
-> fartsmeller314 has proposed we fix the bad thing
-> fartymcfartface14 has proposed we fix the bad thing but introduce a new bad thing so we have stuff to talk about next meeting
-> -FartStinker12
+> Changelings technically all have hiveminds, but their objectives are completely seperate, meaning they compete, why does hivemind chat exist when killing each other is extremely beneficial? Should changelings have shared objectives? Should one changeling dying affect the other changelings? Turning biomass cap down? Kill objectives shared? We think there should be some kind of Changeling cooperation that's more officially set in generally. "Changelings should be able to give DNA to each other?" - CBozo. Gtheglorious thinks their objectives should be completely shared, and if the person who achieved the objective dies, the objective is reset. CBozo emphasises that murderboning rules should still exist. Tikibomb thinks Changelings should be able to absorb pets, Bloomyex thinks they shouldn't.
+
+> Syndicates work on different contracts, but still share a goal generally of combatting Nanotrasen, so it makes sense for them to work together. Also random note they should
+
+> Gtheglorious thinks heretics should be completely opposed to each other, and should be able to kill each other to take the other person's intelligence or whatever it's called. We generally agree heretics should be lone antags from each other at least, but can cooperate with syndicates. Cultists are the team antagonist version of heretics.
+
+> We should just make a spreadsheet for what antags should be allowed to team with each other later
+
+> - Piras314
 
 #### Goals
 <!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
 Compile admin team opinions on the following questions:
-1. What is bad
-2. How do we fix bad things
+1. When should antags be able to team up with each other? E.g. should ninjas be able to team up with thieves.
+
+### Naming Rules Discussion <!-- Replace with topic title -->
+
+#### Summary
+
+<!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
+> "No ligma balls, no the-danger, no sigma balls" - Gtheglorious inspirational quote
+
+> Any species should be allowed to use human names
+
+> We were basically just memeing Goob can't even do staff meetings seriously.
+
+> Any name should be basically allowed as long as it somewhat fits.
+
+> Verbs-the-Noun is controversial, at least shouldn't be so meta as Bombs-the-Medbay or Kills-the-Nukies
+
+> - Piras314
+
+#### Goals
+<!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
+Compile admin team opinions on naming rules.
+
+### Github Moderation <!-- Replace with topic title -->
+
+#### Summary
+
+<!-- Important comments from people about the topic, introducing it and setting the stage for the topic's discussion -->
+> "All in favor of making it Piras' job say I" - Someone idk, then like 6 people said I. No maintainer and game admin split!!! Maintainer policy requiring admin review on important PRs is already almost completely written by me and will address that issue.
+
+> - Piras314
+
+#### Goals
+<!-- A list of goals for the meeting. Each goal should be defined specifically enough that it can be apparent if it was completed or not during the meeting. Discussion of the topic is typically considered successful if each meeting goal is acomplished during the meeting. These goals can be used to guide discussion and ensure it stays on topic. -->
+Compile admin team opinions on Github moderation.
 
 ## TLDRs
 
-### Brief Update
+### Lack of Discord Permissions for Admins
+
+Admins needed more Discord permissions, and were given some on the fly during the discussion.
+
+### Automod Sucks
+
+I / Piras314 will fix the automod soon, it's just way too strict and even effects fullmins.
+
+### Antag Rules
+
+Discussion about murderboning and mass sabotage. No concrete conclusions, needs to be brought up again next time.
+
+### Antag Objectives
+
+Discussion about antags' responsibility to following their objectives, we think that antags should be quite locked down to their objectives because unfortunately it just ends up better for everyone even if it's worse on an individual antags point of view.
+
+### Antag Teaming
+
+Discussion about which antagonists can team with each other and when, we decided that changelings should have more cooperation through game mechanics and heretics should be seperated from each other. We will make a spreadsheet about which antags can cooperate with each other at some point later.
+
+### Naming Rules
 
-we fixed that other bad rule
+Discussion about naming rules, verbs-the-noun is disliked along with naming rules in general. Needs to be discussed next week.
 
-### Bad Thing #1
+### Github Moderation
 
-we fixed that thing blabla idk just a tldr here lorem ipsum
+Discussion about github moderation and maintainer-admin interaction. We essentially concluded it's my / piras314's job to ensure that admins are notified of and consulted on changes that might impact them and that github moderation is mostly just up to me / piras314 / head maintainers.
 
 ### Discussion outside Agenda Items
 <!-- TLDR for discussions that occur which aren't part of any topic -->
-- we are so on topic this doesnt apply!
+- I'm not even going to write all the off topic stuff we talked about, people reading this don't need to know about a perma-ban christmas discussion and talking about the new gate map et cetera.
 
-## Overall Conclusion
+## Conclusion
 
-<!-- Overall summary of each meeting topic -->
-in conclusion we will stop being badmins and start being goodmins.
-good progress is being made on bad things albeit slower than we hoped
+Staff meetings are a part of a healthy breakfast, unlike this alive crab:
 🦀