Replies: 17 comments 19 replies
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Oh yeah. Bonus sets in current form are designed as something temporary, kind of work arround. I also would like to leave bonus content open, to resolve the issue of players being annoyed with revisions. In my opinion all additional achievements should be treated differently from the "backloggery" kind of stuff (achievements for progressions and features of the game). |
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I recall @GameDragon2k making a prototype of this, in part. (No able to earn both types at the same time) |
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The prototype still exists, but there is no reason to continue with it now. It was built on the premise that there would not be any server-side extensions to handle bonus sets. But that isn't the case anymore, so it should be handled in a more proper manner. |
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please note on RASuite RetroAchievements/RASuite#74 |
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Adding a note here, but it applies to several of the linked topics as well: Achievements in Bonus sets should not affect the player's Completion rate. Or, if it does, it should be counted as excess of 100%. For example, if a player only plays one game and completes 100% of the base game, and 10% of the bonus set, their average completion percentage should be either 100% or 110%, not 55%. |
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I'd rather not counting bonus cheevos to the completion rating, so leaving at 100%. Otherwise 200% is going to be the new 100%. |
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Originally, I thought of not including Bonus sets into any form of completion percentage and simply have the additional points be the rewarding factor for them. I am unsure if that's still a decent route to take. |
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I think the additional Sets like Bonus, Multiplayer etc. should get their own identity/percentage ratio and Completion Badge as well because without it many player don't want to bother with those Sets and its a good oppurtunity to make some creative and challenging Achievements, unlike the usual Progression Achievements in Core based which are mostly based on Main Game and collecting Items with few additional other Achievements. I would like to see the additional Sets getting better treatment, which could also bring new users to the Site who think the Achievements in Core are to easy or not challenging/interesting enough because its always the same Achievement types just copy pasted. However, most player do prefer the basic Progression Achievements to get their Master a Core Set Badge in their profile. High quality Bonus/Multiplayer Sets would be more for the Pro Gamer audience/streamers etc. so additional content shouldn't just be a placeholder for difficult Achievements but a proper treatment for more creative and complex Challenges, the Toolkit is contantly improving so do the Achievements and the possibilities to create some really interesting ones. Sharing resources without cutting off on oppurtunities, Hard Type Hacks or any Hack in general which is using the same RAM could be binded to the (original source) Game Page, which would be easier for any future Hack to make Achievements for, also easier to find on the Game List, there just needs to be one option that binds the Hack MD5 only to a specific Achievement Group to exclude SMW Core (for example) being unlocked when playing a SWM Hack, same the other way around, SMW Hack should be locked when playing Original SMW so there needs to be some sort of MD5 Firewall builld into the Game Page but in the end it would be worth it by allowing to create multiple variations of same base Game, mostly Hard Type Hacks, Level Hacks. Most Hacks do have the same RAM adresses, only few (higher quality) have changed RAM adresses. When you build something like this then you have to see the whole picture (think big) otherwise it will be just a alternative Container for Challenges nobody plays because there is nothing to earn, which is missed oppurtunity to make RetroAchievements something really interesting in future because picking up Items really gets boring after a while and there are many players who want to be challenged and getting a reward for doing it. |
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#1057 allows the client to fetch the subset data along with the base game data, but how should they be activated?
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I'm leaning towards one but it depends on how this will affect things like completion percent or RR. |
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If it's set up to not affect average completion, I see no reason not to go with 1.
It should be something like this: https://retroachievements.org/viewtopic.php?t=1015&c=5942. it would be great if bonus/subsets went by the player count of the base game so there's more of an incentive to get those achievements. |
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I don't actually play very often, but I think I'd want Bonus completion % seperate from my main completion %. How would this work with multiple subsets? |
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Imo ideally they should all be on by default, as most users will maintain
default settings and using subsets should be encouraged.
I'd have a in-emulator popup prompt when a subset is available that says,
"Two subsets active, to disable subsets do x". X being an easily accessible
way to switch off subsets within the emulator, and include a brief but
simply clear explanation of what subsets are.
Also have a checkbox option for subsets to be processed but muted, as in
not have any pop-ups. It might be worth considering having subsets muted by
default, if excessive pop-ups are found to be annoying.
Finally have an on-site global setting which is on by default to
disable/enable all subsets.
Hi BTW! (kdecks)
…On Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 2:14 PM The Mystical One ***@***.***> wrote:
I don't actually play very often, but I think I'd want Bonus completion %
seperate from my main completion %.
How would this work with multiple subsets?
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I think subsets should be on by default, because "I started a subset that I didn't want to start (but I can just reset it)" is a preferable outcome to "I didn't realize subsets weren't on and missed a lot of achievements" |
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I think this is becoming more of a necessity now that PS2 is out, games are big in file size and subsets require another copy of the game with the patch applied, occupying double the space. Games are also bigger in terms of the content available, meaning in some if not most occasions it isn't possible to switch between core and subset to complete both simultaneously, and even then this method isn't particularly convinient. Subsets are also becoming more and more common, 19 out of 223 PS2 games have subsets created for them, it may not seem like a lot but it is considering my previous point related to file size, if both hashes could be loaded in one this would be circumvented completely. |
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I actually made a similar post about this but never realised this was here. Silly me. Ehe. Regardless, I do believe it is also quite important due to accessibility and streamlining of RetroAchievements in general. Alongside the fact many are quite frustrated over extremely difficult achievements in Core sets. Whether it be going perfectly in the highest difficulty, flawless runs, or just outright weird tricks that a normal player would not dare attempt nor even know about given the game during its past era. Not to say it is frown upon to implement these but these all certainly belong in their own category (outside Core Mastery) due to not be directly correlated to the core design of the game to a general consumer. I suppose you can separate it as 100% completion to additional merits. One thing that immediately come to mind would be the likes of the Super Mario 64 set where most accomplishments are too trivial and obscure for their own good. They should be loaded in but outside the Core set. Which is why additional sets are pretty important. I suppose I shall leave my original post down below in case anyone is interested.
I do hope this can be possible one day as plenty of achievement sets suffer from the same issue but we should not limit the creativity (or insanity) of developers, letting this be a way where everyone can win. |
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Maybe there is some kind of way we can have the emulators pop-up with a message on core game boot that says something like:
That way we can have Jamiras's Option 3 but also not the worry of people simply not knowing about subsets. |
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~ Bonus ~ achievements are achievements that are considered too hard for the base set, or require glitches. They don't count towards mastery of a set or the 400 point limit.
Currently, to earn ~ Bonus ~ achievements, the player has to patch their ROM so it generates a new MD5 and fetches the ~ Bonus ~ achievement set. Instead, ~ Bonus ~ achievements should be considered part of the main game.
Suggested implementation would be to add another flag. Right now, the flags appear to be:
So, adding an 8 - bonus would seem straightforward.
When loading a game, Core and Unofficial achievements are already fetched and separated. The ~ Bonus ~ achievements would also be fetched at the same time, and activated with the Core achievements. This would allow players to earn any missing Core achievements while they're working on the ~ Bonus ~ achievements, and wouldn't require patching their ROM.
However, to make this work, we'd have to have some way to distinguish ~ Bonus ~ achievements from Core achievements on the web page and the overlays in RA_Integration and RetroArch. Additionally, RA_Integration would have to be modified to mark achievements as ~ Bonus ~, and existing ~ Bonus ~ sets would have to be migrated into their base game.
There may be additional work on the server to determine when a user Masters a set.
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