Replies: 21 comments 29 replies
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Thank you for raising this. Yes, I think it's good time for us to apply this year for GSoC, and I agree, with a focus on fpm. I missed the call today and haven't watched the recording yet so I don't know to what extent has this been discussed already. Applications for Orgs open Jan 29, and close Feb 19. We should have a clear idea about the project by Jan 29. Let's get on a call to flesh out ideas later this week or early next week. @certik has experience with GSoC and I believe he will apply this year with LFortran. I'll be happy to help with the Org application. Would anyone here like to be a mentor? Also, we have a few students who are actively involved with fortran-lang projects (I think @awvwgk, @LKedward, @ivan-pi). Does it make sense for them to apply as GSoC students (although they would make great mentors as well)? Or is it more appropriate to bring in a new student on board? Tagging also @everythingfunctional @urbanjost @arjenmarkus |
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Right, still student here. The GSoC guides only mentions that prior involvement in a project should be noted in the application. However, I wouldn't consider applying as student given my current involvement in this and other open source communities. But, I am certainly in for mentoring a GSoC project with fpm. |
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Unfortunately I'm no longer registered as a student since I took up a research position at the university while I I haven't watched the call recording back yet, but +1 for a call to discuss this further. |
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It looks like we could have multiple projects, each with a student working on it. So it would make sense to apply with at least one project for fpm and another for stdlib. |
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Indeed, it would make sense to propose one project for both fpm and stdlib. There is enough topics to work on in stdlib to find an attractive one ;) |
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I would absolutely be in favor of submitting fpm to GSoC. I wouldn't mind being a mentor either. Send me a calendar invite when you guys are planning to discuss. |
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Yesterday, during the monthly call I proposed to contact the organisers of
last year's FortranCon about recruiting students. I will do that this week.
Op wo 20 jan. 2021 om 04:28 schreef Brad Richardson <
notifications@github.com>:
… I would absolutely be in favor of submitting fpm to GSoC. I wouldn't mind
being a mentor either. Send me a calendar invite when you guys are planning
to discuss.
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I have contacted Alfio Lazzaro and Tiziano Müller about student involvement
from their side. Alfio suggested that I send the request to their CP2K
forum as well, as there we may find the actual students. I will do so later.
Op vr 22 jan. 2021 om 11:11 schreef Laurence Kedward <
notifications@github.com>:
… Unfortunately I'm no longer registered as a student since I took up a
research position at the university while I procrastinate write-up my
thesis. Happy to act as a mentor.
I haven't watched the call recording back yet, but +1 for a call to
discuss this further.
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I set up a Doodle poll for next week to discuss GSoC: https://doodle.com/poll/4n9cwntktctkafdt?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link I plan to set a time Monday morning Eastern time at the latest. |
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Thank you all for responding on a short notice, we'll meet today at 2pm Eastern: Milan Curcic is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: Fortran-lang + GSoC Join Zoom Meeting Meeting ID: 975 7463 5194 Dial by your location Join by SIP Join by H.323 |
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I won't be able to make the meeting, sorry about that. We should apply as fortran-lang. The most important part is a dedicated Ideas page with projects. New orgs will only get 2 slots.
…On Mon, Jan 25, 2021, at 8:27 AM, Milan Curcic wrote:
Thank you all for responding on a short notice, we'll meet today at 2pm Eastern:
Milan Curcic is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Fortran-lang + GSoC
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Thank you @certik. We'll bounce ideas ideas today and we should meet again next week to iterate on the application. I'll record the meeting for your reference. Here are some reference docs from the guide that will be helpful for today: |
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Apologies, it doesn't look like I'll be able to attend this meeting. I'll be sure to watch the recording and post any comments before the next meeting. Today I would have suggested #321 and #35 as a possible broad but self-contained project. |
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Here's a list of ideas that we discussed:
Please post any other ideas that come up in this thread for now. Tentative plan going forward:
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I updated the points about testing specifications and the source code distribution |
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Here's the recording of the meeting: https://youtu.be/13AcyCsHuQs |
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Thanks everybody. I unfollowed the repository, so from now on I will only get emails when somebody mentions me, so I should be able to react sooner. For our next meeting, I would like @LKedward and myself to be able to attend. The ideas above are a good start. @milancurcic can you start a wiki page? Then we can collectively update it with ideas. |
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Thank you @awvwgk . I'll do the same for |
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We will apply as fortran-lang, so the ideas page must be just one page for fortran-lang with all related projects. I'll add lfortran projects there too. As many as we can. If we get accepted, then students will apply. We need a dedicated channel for new students. Probably Discourse? If so, we also need clear instructions what students should do. The other thing to do is a "patch requirement". A student must send a patch to our repositories and the PR must be accepted, otherwise their application will not be considered. This ensures all candidates have enough skills to contribute. This is how we do it for sympy: https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GSoC-2019-Student-Instructions https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GSoC-2019-Ideas https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GSoC-2019-Application-Template |
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@certik considering that GitHub Wikis are per repo, we can use them for drafting and when done, consolidate all the projects on https://fortran-lang.org/gsoc-2021. It will look nicer than Wikis and should get more search results and hits.
Do you mean for prospective students or once they started? I think Discourse or GitHub issues would both work.
So LFortran won't apply through NumFocus? If not, would you like to be the admin for the fortran-lang application, considering you have the most experience with GSoC here? |
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I'm personally not in favor of the patch requirement, at least not in the first year. We already have against us a relatively small pool of applicants (I assume), that an additional filter may be unhelpful if not harmful. Applications area stressful enough for students already. I think the You and Your Project section already covers the ground for selecting good candidates. |
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I will apply through as many organizations as I can. I will not apply to be a new organization just for LFortran, that chance is low. We have a decent chance as fortran-lang. We need more than 1 admin, yes I would like to be an admin, you should be too. I disagree on the patch requirement, I am convinced we need it for projects that will contribute code to fpm or stdlib. If the student is unable or unwilling to send a patch, then the chance of a success of his or her project is extremely low and it will end up a waste of time of everybody, including us mentors. It is not worth. |
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Wrt the standard conformance, I suggested to use my collection of small
checking programs at
https://sourceforge.net/p/flibs/svncode/HEAD/tree/trunk/chkfeatures/.
The one thing to note (besides that the collection is not complete and some
features may be difficult to test explicitly) is that the programs are
designed to compile if the compiler supports the feature and to produce
some human-readable output to confirm the (correct) execution. They are not
meant perse to be used in a "probing" context, as you see in CMake of
autotools or the like.
Op ma 25 jan. 2021 om 21:09 schreef Milan Curcic <notifications@github.com>:
… Here's a list of ideas that we discussed:
- fpm:
- Local registry
- Version constraint resolution
- Preprocessor
- Package manifest as a specification
- Source code distribution with foreign package system like
conda-forge
- stdlib:
- Strings
- Containers
- OS integration: POSIX and Windows API integration for file system
and OS operations, subprocesses
- General
- Standard conformance suite as an fpm package or a fpm feature
(Sourcery Institute, @rouson <https://github.com/rouson>)
Please post any other ideas that come up in this thread for now.
Tentative plan going forward:
1. Set up next week's meeting (I will do this)
2. In the meeting, discuss these ideas again and finalize a first
draft of the list (but an idea can be added if it comes later)
3. Open an issue to track development and get feedback for each
project idea. Find mentors for each project.
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I set up a Doodle poll to meet next week. Ideally please mark your availability by end of day on Friday: https://doodle.com/poll/nkwic3cnpsc93zb2?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link Tagging @certik |
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Done, thanks! |
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On the Intel Fortran forum, there was a question regarding automatic
documentation generation via FORD. Perhaps getting FORD into maintenance
again could be another project. I have no idea about the complexity and it
would involve parsing Fortran via Python, IIUIC, but it does seem useful.
Op do 28 jan. 2021 om 01:23 schreef Ondřej Čertík <notifications@github.com
…:
Done, thanks!
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If I understand your proposal properly, it could be achieved by writing an lfortran backend to Ford, which the license would allow. I don't see why you would need to include ford code in lfortran. If for some reason you do, one option would be to make it a separate release of lfortran and only cover that one with the gpl. I fundamentally do not believe in permissive licenses. They won't stop me contributing to a project but I will not use them for my own codes. Frankly, I care more about free software than I do about any one project or, indeed, language. I therefore do not want my code used in anything proprietary. If that is truly vital to you then I'm afraid you'll have to write your own documentation generator. The parsing is by far the hardest part so it sounds like you're most of the way there. My accusation of bloody-mindedness was directed at large companies that refuse to use gpl code despite their only intended use being permitted by the license. It also referred to people who might refuse to contribute meerge requests to gpl projects just because of the livrnse. It was not directed at those wishing to develop their own permissive libraries, whatever my disagreements with them might be. |
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That's great to hear. "Big org" is relative. Businesses that sell and distribute closed source software couldn't do this. Cloud computing and turning software into SaaS helps with GPL because software is no longer distributed. My anecdote about licenses: My first GitHub project was GPL in 2013. There were a few requests here and there to multi-license. I liked the idea of GPL and these were small users so I said sorry. In 2015 two "big" users (team leads from Max Planck Institute and US Navy) asked to relicense. I thought, do I care about these users and my project being useful for them, or do I care about how GPL makes me feel? I relicensed. What we see are people who ask to relicense. What we don't see are all the people that walk away without asking. |
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I think this hits the nail on the head and is the only argument that matters here, and I respect it. |
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What would that entail from me? I don't know very much about GsOC. I might be able to do it through work. |
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I think about few hours per week to guide the student, during the summer. @certik knows more as he has experience with this. If you can, join the call on Tuesday and we'll discuss. |
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Thank you all for Doodle feedback. We'll meet on Tuesday (2/2) at 3 pm Eastern (20 UTC) to discuss GSoC projects. Zoom info below: Milan Curcic is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: Fortran-lang + GSoC Join Zoom Meeting Meeting ID: 989 8569 3219 Dial by your location Join by SIP Join by H.323 |
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It seems this meeting will overlap another one (if I get my timezones
right), so I will probably not be able to join you.
Op ma 1 feb. 2021 om 04:28 schreef Milan Curcic <notifications@github.com>:
… Thank you all for Doodle feedback. We'll meet on Tuesday (2/2) at 3 pm
Eastern (20 UTC) to discuss GSoC projects. Zoom info below:
Milan Curcic is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Fortran-lang + GSoC
Time: Feb 2, 2021 03:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
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Hello.I am Guruprasad here |
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Hi Guruprasad, yes, please join our call tomorrow if you'd like to meet some potential mentors for this Org, and to see what kind of projects you'd enjoy working on. Otherwise, follow this thread, we'll be posting updates as we flesh out project ideas. |
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@certik @awvwgk @LKedward @jvdp1 @everythingfunctional @rouson I copied the project ideas wikis here: https://github.com/fortran-lang/fortran-lang.org/wiki/Google-Summer-of-Code-2021 Any further edits please make there. |
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Thanks, I deleted the wiki page at the fpm repository to avoid potential confusion. I'll try to collect ideas, notes and references to the fpm relates projects in the next days. |
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I started the discussion thread and GSoC tag on Discourse: https://fortran-lang.discourse.group/t/google-summer-of-code-2021/658 |
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Do we want to apply with @fortran-lang for Google Summer of Code projects with fpm?
We have plenty of open issues, some of them are already well discussed and fleshed out and could make a great self-contained project. Creating projects from our most important issues might help us to prioritize better on the development of fpm as well. Of course this is associated with a significant portion of work in preparation and over the summer.
See https://fortran-lang.discourse.group/t/fortran-monthly-call-january-2021/557 for the original idea.
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