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ui: move decrease frameskip key from F8 to Shift F9
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@happppp
happppp committed Feb 9, 2024
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4 changes: 2 additions & 2 deletions docs/source/usingmame/defaultkeys.rst
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Expand Up @@ -159,10 +159,10 @@ and saving/loading save states.
similar to the load option above. If an existing save state is present, it
will also appear in the selection menu to allow overwriting of that save
state.
**F8**
Decrease frame skipping on the fly.
**F9**
Increase frame skipping on the fly.
**Left Shift+F9**
Decrease frame skipping on the fly.
**F10**
Toggle speed throttling.
**F11**
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4 changes: 2 additions & 2 deletions src/emu/inpttype.ipp
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Expand Up @@ -898,8 +898,8 @@ namespace {
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_RESET_MACHINE, N_p("input-name", "Reset Machine"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F3, KEYCODE_LSHIFT, input_seq::or_code, KEYCODE_F3, KEYCODE_RSHIFT) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_SOFT_RESET, N_p("input-name", "Soft Reset"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F3, input_seq::not_code, KEYCODE_LSHIFT, input_seq::not_code, KEYCODE_RSHIFT) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_SHOW_GFX, N_p("input-name", "Show Decoded Graphics"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F4) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_FRAMESKIP_DEC, N_p("input-name", "Frameskip Dec"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F8) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_FRAMESKIP_INC, N_p("input-name", "Frameskip Inc"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F9) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_FRAMESKIP_DEC, N_p("input-name", "Frameskip Dec"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F9, KEYCODE_LSHIFT, input_seq::or_code, KEYCODE_F9, KEYCODE_RSHIFT) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_FRAMESKIP_INC, N_p("input-name", "Frameskip Inc"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F9, input_seq::not_code, KEYCODE_LSHIFT, input_seq::not_code, KEYCODE_RSHIFT) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_THROTTLE, N_p("input-name", "Throttle"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F10) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_FAST_FORWARD, N_p("input-name", "Fast Forward"), input_seq(KEYCODE_INSERT) ) \
INPUT_PORT_DIGITAL_TYPE( 0, UI, UI_SHOW_FPS, N_p("input-name", "Show FPS"), input_seq(KEYCODE_F11, input_seq::not_code, KEYCODE_LSHIFT) ) \
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28 comments on commit d88e127

@happppp
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@happppp happppp commented on d88e127 Feb 9, 2024

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A nitpick of mine: the P key. Should it be moved to the F5-F8 row? Then IPT_KEYPAD can use P, and users/devs can type all letters with IPT_KEYBOARD when the UI lock is disabled.

@cuavas
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@cuavas cuavas commented on d88e127 Feb 9, 2024

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A nitpick of mine: the P key. Should it be moved to the F5-F8 row? Then IPT_KEYPAD can use P, and users/devs can type all letters with IPT_KEYBOARD when the UI lock is disabled.

It would break too many people’s decades of muscle memory and all the “designed for MAME” control panels that emulate keyboards. I think even changing the default frameskip controls is going to annoy a significant chunk of the userbase because people are so used to it.

Remember people can reassign pause, and only need to do it once if they don’t like it being on a letter key.

@happppp
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@happppp happppp commented on d88e127 Feb 9, 2024 •
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Let's say a device keypad had 0-9, A,B,C,P. Then I (as developer) always find myself skipping the P key in the input defs to circumvent a clash with the UI pause key, and use something like O instead. Which is awkward.

Or eg. a "PLAY" button, which I'd assign to the Y key.

@cuavas
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@cuavas cuavas commented on d88e127 Feb 9, 2024

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I know – the defaults for Taiwanese mahjong control panels assign semicolon to P to avoid a conflict with pause. (I realise they predate MAME having the MESS-sourced UI controls toggle.)

Keypads with only a few letter keys but they happen to include P are a relatively small proportion of systems. The number of systems with either just “game controls” or a full keyboard are a lot more common.

But changing the default for pause would be incredibly disruptive. You’d be pissing off too many people.

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Remember people can reassign pause, and only need to do it once if they don’t like it being on a letter key.

Playing devil's advocate, if the default was changed to a function key which I think would make it more user friendly, especially for new/newer users, anyone upset about the new mapping could just change theirs back to P.

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Just to throw a bit of fuel onto the fire, I have been using the Pause/Break key for pause for some years. Many PC games also use the Pause key for pause. Afaik nothing else uses P, which is a relic carryover from the days when MAME was arcade-only. I appreciate that some keyboards might not have a Pause key, but the same situation exists with Scroll Lock, and users are expected to sort that out themselves.

@mamehaze
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@mamehaze mamehaze commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024 •
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None of the laptops I have access to have a dedicated Pause/Break button, at best it's a hidden function of another button. Keyboards are highly regional.

That said, for my streaming setup (desktop) I move it to the pause/break key .

@rb6502
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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024

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This is unacceptable, I'm quitting the project if people can just do shit like this.

@happppp
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The pause key stuff is just a discussion, nothing was done.

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024

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I mean the frame skip keys.

@happppp
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Ah right, I've no problem if you really disagree with it and want to revert it.
IMO 2 keys for that is overkill if you think of it from a new user perspective. And this modification frees up a UI key for the future.

@rb6502
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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024

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Anything requiring extra modifiers IMO should be reserved for rare/uncommon functions, like hard reset being shift-F3, and paired functions should either both be on plain F-keys or modified F-keys (save states violates that and I've hated it for 20 years). Frameskip up/down are not rare/uncommon.

@happppp
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Yeah, give it some thought and if you still disagree much with this commit, revert it, no hard feelings.

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It'll take a bit of getting used to due to muscle memory, but I don't think it's inherently a bad change.

@rb6502
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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024

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Here's my minimal change to get "P" back:
F4 = Pause
Shift-F4 = tile viewer
F8 = increase frame skip (reverts this PR)

Being able to type "P" in MAME mode on computers without pausing is a big deal.

Also fixing save/load state to be symmetrical is a bigger set of changes that I'm not 100% happy with (I'd ideally like FPS display and throttle toggle to both be un-modified F keys, but fitting that is rough).

F4 = Pause
Shift-F4 = tile viewer
F8 = create save state
F9 = frame skip increase
F10 = frame skip decrease
F11 = toggle throttle
Control+F11 = toggle FPS display
Shift+F11/Alt+F11 stay as is

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F5 is still free (ctrl+F5 and ctrl+alt+F5 are not)
F6 is a global toggle for cheats, IMO can be removed. I don't run MAME often with -cheat, but when I do, I never use that key. If I want to disable cheats, I press TAB and go to the cheat menu.

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024 •
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Ahh, those are excellent points.

In that case, don't change F4.
F5 = load save state (control/control-alt F5 stay as-is)
F6 = create save state
Ctrl+F6 = decrease prescale (not a change)
F7 = frame skip increase
Ctrl+F7 = increase prescale (not a change)
F8 = frame skip decrease
F9 = pause
don't change F10/F11.

Does that sound good?

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024

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If someone really wants the cheat toggle, I'm fine with making that shift-F6, too.

@happppp
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@happppp happppp commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024 •
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Why shuffle them around? Just do F5 pause, F6, save, F7 load.
And if you want faster savestates, since the common usecase is a single savestate, add a quicksave/load (without the popup) with shift F6/F7.

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 10, 2024

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That works too. So it becomes:

F5 = Pause
F6 = Create save state
F7 = Load save state
F8 = Decrease frame skip

And no other changes. (The quicksave/quickload would be nice but that's a feature-add we can do separately).

@cuavas
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@cuavas cuavas commented on d88e127 Feb 11, 2024

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Moving pause to F4 and tile viewer to Shift-F4 would mean losing the convenient P for pause and Shift+P for frame advance (which also pauses after running one frame). It’s easy to remember them when frame advance is adding shift to pause.

The cheat toggle key is pretty important for people actually using cheats to, you know, cheat in games. For example if you’re playing Street Fighter II with unlimited life and/or unlimited time cheats, you need to disable them after finishing a round or the game will hang forever trying to total up your life/time bonuses. Many games are require you to disable cheats at certain points to proceed. Not having a dedicated key for it would be pretty irritating.

Also remember that SDL builds use a bunch of Ctrl+F-key combinations for various things, and Windows builds use Ctrl+Alt+F5 as well as various combinations involving F12.

@cuavas
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@cuavas cuavas commented on d88e127 Feb 11, 2024

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Remember people can reassign pause, and only need to do it once if they don’t like it being on a letter key.

Playing devil's advocate, if the default was changed to a function key which I think would make it more user friendly, especially for new/newer users, anyone upset about the new mapping could just change theirs back to P.

They couldn’t easily change it back to P if an increasing number of systems started using P as a default assignment for IPT_KEYPAD or IPT_OTHER type controls, as those can’t be reassigned en masse in general input assignments.

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 11, 2024 •
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Which is why this is the current proposal:
F5 = Pause
Shift+F5 = Step
F6 = Create save state
Shift+F6 = Toggle cheats
F7 = Load save state (not changed from 0.262)
F8 = Decrease frame skip (not changed from 0.262)
F9, F10, and F11 all remain the same as 0.262 also

Having any alphanumeric be a global MAME key is a major PITA for debugging computer systems. If "P" is sacred to arcades, then we need to have the ability for the mapping to be separate for systems with and without a keyboard.

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 11, 2024

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Anyway, I have a changelist that does what's said above, if no-one objects strongly in the next day or so I'll apply it.

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You probably already saw, but I'll mention here anyway: I added the cheat toggle to the cheat menu, this makes the F6 shortcut key less important. And I quickly added quicksave shortcuts but no default keys yet, my choice would be Shift F6/F7 in the above configuration. But then, where does the cheat key go?

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@cuavas cuavas commented on d88e127 Feb 11, 2024

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You're missing the point - having to go into the menu to toggle cheats on/off is impractical for people actually using cheats to cheat in games. It's something that has to be done pretty regularly to progress. Adding a menu item for it doesn't make the control less important.

@happppp
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@happppp happppp commented on d88e127 Feb 11, 2024 •
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Important enough to be on an F key without a modifier key, probably not.
But a cheat gamer would have a different opinion, just like I do when I say taking 2 F keys for altering frameskip level is too much.

Maybe it can go to Shift F8 (can't look at the moment if it's taken by something else). And rewind-step (Shift Tilde) would make more sense next to pause, so Shift F4?

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@rb6502 rb6502 commented on d88e127 Feb 14, 2024

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The new assignments are in at 45890ad

We can do further tuning from there.

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