hash/ibm5170_cdrom: Add Zork Nemesis

[chungy]

Ripped from my own CDs :)

[FoxhackDN]

How are you ripping these, just straight bin+cues? Or using Redump tools?

[chungy]

How are you ripping these, just straight bin+cues? Or using Redump tools?

cdrdao read-cd --device /dev/sr0 --read-raw --datafile zork1.{dat,toc} (and repeat for discs 2 and 3)

Then also checked to see if it can be accurately represented as a 2048B sector image (mount the iso image with cdemu, do cdrdao again with the virtual CD drive, check the dat SHA1s). These can, so use that version to make the CHD.

[ICEknigh7]

Is cdrdao suitable for game preservation? These comments I just found at the VGPC Discord have me a bit worried about it:

[rb6502]

That's the old audio offsets chestnut, which applies to every method of reading a CD (including playing the games on hardware). There is not a widely available solution for it, just some closed source hoarded software made by one of the dumping groups that you have to use with a specific 25 year old Plextor drive.

The proper solution is for someone to make a drive that reads CDs the way we now read floppies and laserdiscs: as raw as possible and let software sort it out. There has been significant pressure by the dumping groups for people not to develop that solution because it would make them not special in the same way that Catweasel and Applesauce democratized floppy preservation.

[angelosa]

https://github.com/superg/redumper I don't think it's closed source if you mean this, the problem being yes, it wants very specific drives and needs cue editing because chdman doesn't know what to do with "MODE/0" it outputs in cuesheets.

[FoxhackDN]

Yeah the Redump folks used DiscImageCreator with Plextor drives, a little while back a dev created Redumper, which was intended to be a replacement for DIC, and it works just as well if not better in most cases. It's open source and the developer accepts patches to improve on it.

Since a lot of the software on the lists uses Redump dumps, I just add those. I also dump things in their format using their tools, and I have had issues with the cues but it's nothing a quick edit doesn't fix. I haven't really added any CD items to the lists in a while, mostly because the stuff I dump is Windows XP or higher, or PC+Mac hybrids and there still isn't an agreed way of handling those in the lists.

[chungy]

Is cdrdao suitable for game preservation? These comments I just found at the VGPC Discord have me a bit worried about it:

I've never encountered a situation where cdrdao ends up with an image that differs from known-good dumps in the redump.org database, even for mixed-mode CDs. Perhaps I got lucky with my choice of disc drive, but I'm not buying the fearmongering messages. :)

Zork Nemesis is as simple as it gets. A single MODE1 data track. No cause for alarm about audio anyway.

[chungy]

https://github.com/superg/redumper I don't think it's closed source if you mean this, the problem being yes, it wants very specific drives and needs cue editing because chdman doesn't know what to do with "MODE/0" it outputs in cuesheets.

well, despite that HL-DT-ST - BD-RE WH14NS40 is listed in "supported drives" and being my exact drive... it claims that I have an unsupported drive and refuses to do anything.

Now I'm really going to not care. xD

[DopefishJustin]

There is not a widely available solution for it, just some closed source hoarded software made by one of the dumping groups that you have to use with a specific 25 year old Plextor drive.

This has not been the case for a long time now. Redumper and its predecessor DiscImageCreator are open source. There is also ongoing work to support currently sold models of drives from ASUS and LG.

well, despite that HL-DT-ST - BD-RE WH14NS40 is listed in "supported drives" and being my exact drive... it claims that I have an unsupported drive and refuses to do anything.

It's a supported drive but you also need to flash it with a supported firmware version: http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title=Flashing_Asus_BW-16D1HT_firmware

[chungy]

It's a supported drive but you also need to flash it with a supported firmware version: http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title=Flashing_Asus_BW-16D1HT_firmware

Yeah that's not happening. Not only have I not been convinced that cdrdao produces inaccurate dumps (my own experience shows otherwise), but I'm not going to introduce the possibility of bricking my drive just to use something else. Plus my current firmware is allegedly supported anyway, 1.03... plus it requires a Windows program to flash. All the nopes right there...

Besides, Zork just has a single MODE1 data track. All of this debate is pointless.

[DopefishJustin]

Besides, Zork just has a single MODE1 data track. All of this debate is pointless.

Agreed, it is not relevant to this PR specifically and I don't have any objection to merging it. I just wanted to push back against some of the misleading information being posted. (Which keeps happening - no, a Windows program is not required to flash.)

[cuavas]

• Can you try to make the name a bit more terse? We try to jam them into eight characters if possible so there’s plenty of room for suffixes for clones if more versions show up.
• Please add part_id for each part to give human-readable disc labels.

Like:

		<part name="cdrom1" interface="cdrom">
			<diskarea name="cdrom">
				<feature name="part_id" value="What it says on the disc label" />
				<disk name="zork nemesis disc 1" sha1="85a6cac392f3648ba02320455690df1196b0bd79" />
			</diskarea>
		</part>

[chungy]

Please add part_id for each part to give human-readable disc labels.

The only real identifiable label on the discs are the roman numerals I, II, and III. That doesn't seem too helpful in a UI in my opinion, but I could do it.

[angelosa]

Labels will be displayed when selecting the entry in File Manager. Pretty useful if the game specifically prompts for those.

[chungy]

I just wanted to push back against some of the misleading information being posted. (Which keeps happening - no, a Windows program is not required to flash.)

I had to wait some time to try to write something in a calm mood, but I still find this statement deeply ironic. What you linked contains links to a bunch of *.exe files (aka, Windows programs), which also happen to be all 404s. Even if I wanted to try a dangerous operation on my hardware, I couldn't.

[DopefishJustin]

As is often the case with these kinds of things, the wiki documentation is out of date and unclear. Thank you for pointing out the broken links, I have now corrected them. The currently recommended method for all of the JB8 drive models is to use the modified 3.10 firmware, which is available via a direct .bin link at the top of the page. My understanding is that this can be flashed using the Linux port of MakeMKV using the makemkvcon command-line tool which is referenced elsewhere on the wiki page, but I have not tried this personally (I last went through the procedure a couple of years ago using Windows). I will see if I can get someone more knowledgeable to update the page.

The issue is that redumper has a fairly small whitelist of known good drive and firmware combinations and the settings to use for each, and yours is most likely not in the list, even though it might have the needed functionality. It should be possible to run redumper without changing the firmware by manually specifying the correct values for --drive-type, --drive-sector-order, --drive-pregap-start, and --drive-read-method at the command line, but the details are getting getting beyond the scope of this thread. If you would like to discuss further, I would recommend the VGPC Discord server which has a very active PC dumping community.

I mainly just wanted to get across that the Redump project methods are not some kind of unattainable secret sauce, they have been used by hundreds of dumpers on over 100,000 discs with consistent, repeatable results. For simple data discs it may not be an issue but the CD standard is messy and there are a lot of edge cases that can come up.

[sairuk]

@DopefishJustin efforts to correct some of the misinformation in this thread (particularly around availability of project tooling) overall is a good thing.

I have gone through this ASUS crossflashing method on both of my drives. If interested my notes on crossflashing my LG BH16NS55 to ASUS_BW-16D1HT_3.02 are here but i expect it is the media that will necessitate need.

More generally In lieu of any official software submission specs (that I know of), @FoxhackDN and @ICEknigh7 querying the dumping method seems a reasonable enough particularly when there is no currently known good hash for a submission, for new hashes methods should probably be recorded (in pull requests?) and if necessary challenged where applicable to ensure software lists remain as accurate as possible.

[FoxhackDN]

I also asked the question because of the whole 2048/2352 sector size thing with disc images. I believe I was told in an earlier software list submission that disc images had to be 2352 sectors. I haven't added anything in a while because all my stuff is too new for MAME (unsupported OS and hardware specs.)

Since these discs were made from the submitter's own discs I wasn't sure if they would match existing dumps. They might, though, and that would be helpful for determining which version of the game was dumped and if they matched either of those. (Redump currently has two English versions of the game.) Single track dumps from drives that haven't been tested by the dumping tool developers will usually match Redump verified dumps.

[chungy]

Since these discs were made from the submitter's own discs I wasn't sure if they would match existing dumps.

They match other dumps already confirmed on redump.org, but yes I converted them to 2048B sector images prior to making the CHDs (which affects the CHD SHA1, see #12806). My basic method of doing that is this:

$ cdrdao read-cd --device /dev/sr0 --read-raw --datafile zork.dat zork.toc
$ cdemu load 0 zork.toc
$ pv /dev/sr1 > zork.iso
$ eject /dev/sr1 && cdemu load 0 zork.iso
$ cdrdao read-cd --device /dev/sr1 --read-raw --datafile zork2.dat zork2.toc
$ sha256sum zork.dat zork2.dat

Basically: With CDemu loading from a 2048B image, it will regenerate all the address, sync, EDC, ECC information on-the-fly as requested by the application (cdrdao in this case). If the original disc never had malformed sectors due to DRM or other schemes, the dat file will end up identical, hence being able to know that the 2048B sector image can accurately represent the original disc.

It gets a little trickier with mixed-mode CDs because I'd have to use dd to cut out the data track and perform the same test. I usually don't bother when the data track is small (eg, the quake dumps I submitted in #12793), but I've sometimes done the same on other images stored on my computer.