Sorter is laggy.

[meshy]

Known issue with minecraft. https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-14983

[meshy]

@Ian-Foote @ghickman @nologo @mjtamlyn @perry Has everyone +1d the issue linked above?

[ghickman]

I'm guessing you have to log in to comment on that or am I missing something?

[meshy]

You do have to log in, but the "vote" feature is what we really want, rather than a "+1" I suppose.

[ghickman]

How does one log in then? I've tried my mojang/minecraft credentials to no avail and I'm not seeing a register link anywhere… am I being blind??

[meshy]

Click "log in" in the top right. At the bottom there should be a link to "create an account". (It appears after a couple of seconds!)

[ghickman]

wow
so painful

much slow

[ghickman]

Commented and voted.

[meshy]

:D

[ghickman]

1.7.4 seems to have addressed lag of various odd objects and we're replace nearly half the hoppers with chests - how are people finding it now?

[meshy]

Still super laggy -- and now that @jimboswilko's made one too it's bad in the "far away" too

[meshy]

There has to be a better way

[ghickman]

How are folks finding it now, seems much better for me.

[meshy]

I think I'm just getting used to it tbh. It's still very noticeable on my PC.

[ghickman]

I want to say get a mac but given my recent experiences with their support I'm going to go with "that sucks, let's leave this open for now".

[peterjwest]

Could reduce a lot of lag by replacing many hoppers with minecart transportation (on top mostly).

Also it seems like it would be more effective to have the whole thing less tall, but have more than one stack for bulk items (since some items frequently fill their stack, while others will never fill a single chest).

[ghickman]

@meshy – Did you mention an ice based one a while back?

@peterjwest – yes less height would be good but the mechanism took so long to put in most of us have given up on the idea of lowering it now…

Good point about doubling up though, that would certainly sort out our naive cap on cobble, sand and passive goodies.

[meshy]

Did you mention an ice based one a while back?

I did. That unmeltable ice would be perfect for it.

most of us have given up on the idea of lowering it now

Indeed. In fact, I think we should find a nicer location, and just build a new one using the ice method.

[ghickman]

@meshy Maybe it's time to re work some of the rails around the base to give us more room? Out the back of the base (towards Stuarton) is a complete mess and really not that used, it's just the passive farm drop pipe. It would be directly in front of you as you ran in then.

We could set the floor at the same level as the potions room too?

[peterjwest]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1186571/Sorter.zip @olorton
Tileable unbreakable filters. They're one block taller and one block longer than regular ones.

[ghickman]

👍 would love to have to stop fixing the damned sorter…

[peterjwest]

Also makes it possible to use multiple columns for the same item.

[meshy]

multiple columns for the same item

Is that a good thing?

[peterjwest]

Well it means we don't have to hack on more chests to accommodate a bulk item.

[ghickman]

hack on more chests to accommodate a bulk item

The single chests are the hack here, it was originally designed for the overlapping style. When we go big, we definitely go to town on it!

That being said, multiple columns would be really useful for a number of items (sand, cobble, iron, etc).

[ghickman]

@peterjwest – Having a look at the design now, do we need the filters to contain 22 of each item or can we get away with placeholders and an 18 (or equivalent) stack? It looks like I can replace the single items with poppies but not sure what knock on effect that will have.

Have you tried this design with single stack items?

[peterjwest]

Poppies are okay, as long as they never get in the system. It would be good to put an overflow in the poppy filter.

[peterjwest]

Oh by the way, the poppy stack is full of other things, noticed yesterday.

[ghickman]

@peterjwest – I think that might be the current cause of issues with the current sorter, something definitely weird going on with poppies - found some in the overflow chests at the back but IIRC they should be going directly to the overflow drop…

It looks like this pattern might need to add 2 blocks in length too, assuming you meant to take the droppers down like this?

The block touching them is passing a signal to the down pipe so I assume we'd need to take the down pipe further away by one block?

[peterjwest]

Nope. It works, I think the hopper below pulls the item down.
Also we can just put a chest there, alternating chests should reduce lag, since chests don't observe for block/entity changes.

[peterjwest]

Have you tried this design with single stack items? 

Do you mean like enderpearls?

[ghickman]

@peterjwest – sort of, I was specifically thinking of things like buckets of water/lava/etc but anything that doesn't stack to 64 has needed less items in the filter in my experience.

I've just tested enderpearls and a single pearl in each slot seems to work. I'm guessing we can't do single items (I don't think we can now)?

[peterjwest]

You can't filter single items, no.

[ghickman]

Dang. Change looks good though!

Have you looked at the current layout to see if we put the new mechanism in but avoid moving all the chests/items? I know @meshy is a super huge fan of bulk moving hoppers

[peterjwest]

I'll need to measure up tonight. Gonna experiment with minecarts to transport from the farms and portal hoppers.

[peterjwest]

Ooh, so the filter can overflow and break.... 1 poppy in each of the last 4 slots actually fixes it.

[ghickman]

@peterjwest – is that if items back up in the hopper pipe?

[peterjwest]

Yeah, if they fill beyond the first stack, the second stack could empty itself when the items flow again.

[meshy]

Have you had a look at the existing system? This looks to be very similar. We have a working overflow on that too...

[peterjwest]

Yes, I've been helping Oliver fix the issues with it.

There are two issues with the current sorter:

• Each filter overflows correctly, but if one fills up, it breaks all the nearby adjacent filters. That's what my design fixes
• The poppy filter needs a separate overflow, if the poppies get into the system they'll break all the filters

[peterjwest]

Oh yes, sorry! I see what you mean.
Looks like there are 2 extra layers for the overflow, one permanent and one disposable?

[meshy]

That's it :)

[peterjwest]

So I've been doing some testing, looks like the upper layer is never used.
Unsortable items go into the permanent overflow, but if sortable items overflow they go straight into disposal, so the top layer of the overflow system never triggers.

[peterjwest]

Seems like we want some items to overflow into the disposable (e.g. feathers) but others not to (e.g. iron, sand, diamonds)

[meshy]

That's very odd, I'm certain it worked when I made it!

[peterjwest]

So this is how the current sorter works:

It works in a reasonable way, but the permanent overflow mechanism never triggers because the disposable overflow triggers first. That's why feathers go into the disposable and don't fill up the permanent overflow.

I'd like to propose this design:

• We remove the current overflow system, and replace the filters with my alternate design. This will remove about 1200 hoppers.
• In order to protect the filters, we'd add a small overflow disposal system to the poppy stack.
• A blacklist filter system could be added to prevent low-value farmed items filling up the permanent overflow (e.g. feathers, rotten flesh), while more valuable items like iron, stone and sand will go into the permanent overflow, giving us a chance to expand their storage
• An ice run on top could remove 200 further hoppers, and speed up sorting using this design: http://youtu.be/BpeYiGowqWk?t=5m34s
• A minecart transport system from local farms would remove more hoppers (guessing a few hundred)

[ghickman]

Can I just start with saying +10 for diagrams!

Some things to clarify:

• What happens with Poppies now? Do we avoid putting them in the sorter completely?
• Can we do these changes piecemeal? Specifically could we upgrade all the filters without needing to do ice runs and a cart system?
• Do we need to change the up pipe for the cart system?
• Did you work out if the current storage stacks need moving?

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere yet but the current design was built to expand out along the railway line should we need it to!

Good job working all this out 👍

Would these upgrades be a good focus for the jamboree/multiple people? i.e. should we call in The Troops™?

[peterjwest]

• Poppies are removed as part of the disposable overflow system
• Yes, most of these changes can be done separately, the first 2 need to be done together
• Could do, "up" to you
• I don't think so, that would be horrible!

[meshy]

Diagrams look nice, but must admit that I still don't understand why the overflow doesn't work. Have you noticed that there are two possible setups for it? Compare the iron system to the roses.

[peterjwest]

Ah you are totally right, encoded with the hopper direction in the disposable overflow.

[peterjwest]

Done: the filters, overflow and blacklist. The blacklist filter sits on top of the disposable overflow and has room for expansion. You can enderpearl onto a ladder, which is also a quick way up to the roof.